Wednesday, October 21, 2015

The Other Woman In The Affair Claims My Husband Loves Her In A Very Special, Unbreakable Way

Many wives who seek out or talk to the other woman know deep in their hearts that no good can come of it. Many later admit that there was a little voice in their head telling them to end the communication at once and to never look back. But, for whatever reason, they ignored that little voice and allowed their curiosity and their need for information to get the better of them. They met with her and then she told them something incredibly hurtful.

An example is the other woman who does her very best to paint the affair as a love story that will never end. She'll try to paint herself and the husband as soul mates who are destined to be together forever and who share a love to which all others just can not compare. This leaves the wife wondering what this means for her. A wife might say: "I did not reach out to the other woman. She called me. And she said that she needed to tell me something very important that might change everything for me. My first inclination was to hang up and to tell her to never call back. But I knew that if I did that, I was going to go crazy wondering what the information was, so I reluctantly agreed to go. Turns out, her 'important information' was the declaration that she and my husband are deeply in love and that they are so close that they share a bond that can never be broken no matter how hard I try. She says my husband has repeatedly told her that he's never felt anything like what he feels with her and that he never had that feeling with me - even when we were dating. She says that my husband told her that he married me only out of a sense of obligation. She informed me that she felt like she just had to be honest with me and tell me that I am wasting my time trying to save a marriage that was never right in the first place. I am so upset by this. I try to put it out of my head, but I can't. My brain keeps echoing with her claims. Tonight, my husband tried to be sweet to me, but I was cold to him because in my mind he was just faking it because he can't possibly feel for me what he felt for her."

Ask Yourself About Her Motives: I know that this must be painful. But I think it might be a mistake to just assume that what she told you is the truth. Think about it for a minute. Does she have any motive to paint the affair as different than it really was? Of course she does. If she can make you think that your marriage doesn't stand a chance, then perhaps you will back off, reluctantly end your marriage, and leave your husband to her. Or, if she can make you think that your marriage can not compete with their relationship, then again, you might just give up and feel that you can't and shouldn't compete - which will completely clear the way for her.

And here's something else that you may not have considered. People who have affairs have a vested interest in trying to magnify the relationship. This makes it easier to justify their behavior. It's easier to think to yourself something like: "I'm not normally the type of person who would cheat. But this relationship was so special and so right that I just had to make an exception. How can I be expected to pass up my soul mate?"

It's better for most people to think about themselves in that way than to admit that they willingly cheated with someone they knew was married and threw all of their integrity out of the window.

Look At What Is Real And Not At Someone Else's Reality: If their relationship was so special and enduring, you will learn that soon enough. But if that were true, why is your husband making an effort to be sweet to you in an attempt to save the marriage? I just think it's important to realize that she has her reasons to tell you what is less than the truth. And if, because of her, you distance yourself from your husband who was truly making an effort, she will get exactly what she wants. She will have accomplished exactly what she set out to do.

Nothing says that you have to believe her and nothing says you have to meet with her or listen to her again. Many wives want to meet with her again to show her that she hasn't won. But frankly, the most effective way to show her your victory is to move on with your life and to secure your marriage so that she is no longer in the middle of it - even if she wants to be.

Reality Changes: And, even if she believes that what she is saying is true, plenty of couples save their marriage under these circumstances. People sometimes do believe that they are in love with their affair. But the longer that it is over and the longer that they are no longer participating it in, the more likely it is that they come to realize that they were wrong.

Honestly, I firmly believe that you are better off getting information from your husband. There's no guarantee that he will tell you the complete truth either. But at least he's someone who you still want in your life. And he is invested in not hurting you, when that may be her goal. Determining where to place your focus is so very important. There's more to read about my own recovery after the affair on my blog at

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I Want My Husband To Think The Other Woman Is Cheating On Him, How Do I Accomplish This?

I can't think of many things that are quite as hurtful as knowing your husband has relationship with someone else, and - worse - is in no hurry to end it. He will often claim that he loves both women and can't bear to let one go. Needless to say, many wives in this situation understandably are looking for a strategy to end the affair. Many consider a plan that will break them up. Sometimes, a necessary component of this plan is to do something to make the other woman seem less than desirable. One option would be if she were cheating.

To that end, a wife might say: "I am trying to determine the best way to get my husband to think that his other woman is cheating on him. There have been times when I knew my husband was so close to breaking it off with her. But she seems to have some sort of hold over him. He keeps saying that he needs time, but he will not end the relationship. And he doesn't seem to want to end our marriage either. I think if he could somehow get mad at her for something, that would do it and we could go on with our lives. I've tried showing him that she's only out for his money, but she seems to sense this and then she will stop asking for things. This weekend, I was out with a friend and I actually saw the other woman at a restaurant with another man. They were laughing and they looked like more than friends. I got excited, but my friend told that this was the other woman's childhood friend. She says that they've been friends for years and that there is nothing romantic between them. I honestly wish I'd taken photos of them to suggest to my husband that she is cheating on him. How can I make him think she's cheating so that the affair will end? I'm considering hiring someone to take photos."

Let's assume for a second that you might see the two of them out again - with your camera ready and focused. Let's even assume that you get a good picture. Do you know for sure that your husband hasn't already met this man? What if your husband knows exactly who he is? What if you show him the photo with the story of the other woman cheating and it backfires big time because your husband knows that you are lying? He will then be able to see exactly what you are trying to do. Sure, you could pretend that it was an honest mistake and that you legitimately thought she was cheating, but it's risky. And, there's also a chance that even if your husband believes you initially, he will question her and she'll be able to prove he's just a friend and that it's your husband she wants. This could even bring them closer together.

I know that not everyone agrees with me, but I almost never think it's a good idea to focus on the other woman. Because what you really want is for your husband to willingly end the affair so that you can rebuild the trust and restore your marriage. If they break up only because you've fooled him into thinking she's cheating, will you ever feel that trust? Can you ever really be secure? Will you feel that he legitimately chose you?

I know that it is hard to just watch and wait. I know that this feels like you are doing nothing when your marriage is on the line. But it's my experience that this type of manipulation and dishonesty almost always comes back to haunt you. As hard as it might be, I feel it's best to wait until you can legitimately say that you both chose to save the marriage because it is legitimately what you wanted.

Saving a marriage after an affair is tricky. It requires both people's full commitment and effort. I'm not sure that you will have that from him if he's only there because he has come to believe something which he may later find out to be untrue.

It would be fair for you to think: "well, I know that's it's dishonest to make him think she's cheating, but she didn't fight fair when it came to me. She was certainly dishonest when she cheated with my husband. Why do I have to have integrity when she doesn't?"

I understand the argument. I've had these thoughts myself. But a relationship that started as an affair has horrible odds of succeeding. The odds are stacked against it from the very beginning. So, there's a good chance that this is not going to end very happily for the other woman. The odds of her riding off in the sunset with your husband for the long term are not good. My point is, there's a very good chance that in the future, her lack of integrity will not pay off.

But you have enough to worry about. Let that go. Let the universe worry about karma. Focus on your own recovery. Hope that your husband does the right thing, but know that you can not control him. You can't force decisions on him. But if you conduct yourself with integrity, you can have some confidence that in the end, people eventually show their true colors. You generally do not have to manipulate anything to make this happen. It will happen on its own. And if you try to force it, then you sometimes bring that negativity back your way, which you don't need or deserve.

I know that you just want her out of your life. But you can choose to minimize her place in your life by focusing on yourself. I firmly believe that placing your focus on healing is the quickest way to feel better and more in control. And once he comes back around, you are in a better place. At least that was my experience. There's more on my blog at

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What Is The Other Woman's Perception Of The Wife?

It's completely normal to wonder about the woman with whom your husband had an affair. You wonder what type of person she is. You wonder what thoughts she had about your husband. You wonder what she thought about you. Often, people just do not understand this curiosity. They wonder why it matters to you. Admittedly, it doesn't literally matter, especially as you move on. But many wives want this knowledge to quell their curiosity. Many of us feel that we could never ever cheat with someone who we knew was married to a loving spouse. How, then, could she? What does she think about us that allows her to do this?

A wife might ask something like: "do most 'other women' think that the wife is a horrible person who is not deserving of her husband? Because that is the only reason that I can come up with that would allow a woman to betray another woman in this way. Is this what most of them think? That the wife is an awful person? I'm not a bad person. I've never been anything but a good wife to my husband. But she must not be aware of this."

I can't speak for every one. Obviously, I don't personally know every "other woman" in question. However, I've gotten correspondence from some of them. And I do have theories about their thought processes, which vary.

She Often Tries To Avoid Thoughts Of The Wife Because It Makes Life Easier: Many "other women" avoid thinking about the wife too much. They are in sort of a denial that this man is married. They look at the wife as an inconvenience of the relationship and they hope that this will eventually work itself out. Many don't probe too much about the marriage or ask too many questions - especially at first. They sense that this is a touchy topic and they figure that they can address it in time. But many of them do report feeling guilt when they think of the wife. Which is why many of them try not to dwell on the thought of her. They try to think of their relationship as completely separate from your marriage.

Some feel so guilty that once the affair is over, they will reach out to the wife and try to apologize. Some will tell you that this is the first time they have ever dated someone who is married and that they never intended for it to happen. In fact, they'll claim that they never would have believed that it could happen. They will sometimes want the wife to know that they are not a bad person and that they never meant to hurt anyone. And I believe that many are sincere in this.

Some Want To Believe That The Wife Is Very Flawed: Of course, the above isn't true of every one. There are some women who will try to vilify the wife. They will see her as the person who is getting in the way of their own happiness and you will hear them say things like: "I don't get why that witch won't let him go. He wants to be with me. He doesn't want the marriage anymore. I don't get why she tries to hang on to a man who wants to be with someone else."

Many of these women have their beliefs because of what the husband has told them. Some husbands of course will claim that their wife doesn't understand them or is cruel in some way, which helps every one to justify the affair. In these cases, the other woman has thoughts about the wife which directly reflect what she has been told.

Other times, she vilifies the wife simply because the wife has what she herself wants.

Sometimes She Is Careful To Mind Her Own Business Because She Is Married Also: Wives often assume that the other woman is determined to take her husband away so that she can marry him. This is sometimes true, but not always. Sometimes the other woman is married herself and has no intention of leaving her own husband. She may actually love her husband and assume that your husband loves you. But she may have the theory that sometimes, marriages are complicated and you have to go outside of them to be fulfilled. I don't believe this to be true, obviously, but some people genuinely believe this.

I find that most of these women don't think about the wife nearly as much as she assumes. Many of them are focused on their own relationship and their own lives. Sure, some of them do want the husband for themselves. And those in this category are more likely to think badly of the wife. But even those will often try to think about her as little as possible because it just makes her frustrated to remember that he is married.

I understand why you are wondering about this, but I am probably not telling you anything new when I say that her opinion of you doesn't matter. She doesn't know you. And the information that she has been given about you probably isn't all that accurate. And, even if it was, her opinion of you is clouded by her own agenda. She will often slant the information for her own gain. It's easier for her to not think of you at all or if she does, to think that there's a reason why your husband is having a relationship with her.

Most of the time, it makes it easier for every one if the people who are cheating try very hard not to think of the spouses involved at all. If they can chase this out of their mind, it makes it easier to feel less guilt and to worry less about the future of a relationship that has the odds greatly stacked against it and probably isn't all that healthy.

I understand why you are curious. But really, who cares what she thinks? You know who you are. And that is all that matters. If it helps, you can read more about my own journey with this on my blog at

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Who Should Do The Most Work After A Marital Affair? Who Has That Responsibility?

As you are struggling to navigate the days after you find out about your spouse's affair, it can become clear that, in order to ever move past this, both you and your spouse are going to have to put forth a great deal of effort. Recovery doesn't happen on its own, but those couples who don't recover can continue to struggle in a marriage that makes them both miserable.

It can feel unfair to the faithful spouse that they have to put up a considerable amount of effort. After all, they didn't cheat. They did nothing wrong. So why are they now faced with this huge obstacle that is going to require all of this work?

Because of the inequality of it all, it can become very tempting to keep score and to insist that your spouse is the one who should be mostly responsible for the recovery. A wife might say: "it took me quite a while to convince my husband to be honest about his affair. I would ask him what made him do this and he would always tell me that he didn't know why he did what he did. Finally though, after I would not accept that answer, he admitted that I was concerned more with the kids than with him. He said that I'd let our sex life slide and I was no longer that playful woman who he loved to be with more than anyone else. He told me that in order for him to truly be happy in our marriage, I would have to put more emphasis on the physical side of it. I told him that I could do that, but that I do not want to be physical with him when he doesn't compliment me and treat me nice in the way that he used to. He agreed that he would make an effort in that department. I told him that I also needed for him to be accountable about spending more time at home. Well, weeks have gone by since that conversation and he hasn't made good on his promises. He told me that I haven't made the effort either. He says we've only had sex a couple of times. He said that it's up to me to make the effort first. I think that this is ridiculous. The person who cheated has to make the most effort. Isn't this true?"

I do agree with you that most people assume that the biggest initiative must come from the spouse who cheated. They are the ones who caused the damage and so they are the ones who are mostly responsible.

However, in reality, it often takes effort by both parties to make things right again. If the cheating spouse is the only one making any changes, then he can feel resentful. If the faithful spouse doesn't see any changes, they can feel distrust and suspicion. And, if either party continues to be unhappy in the marriage, then you are vulnerable to future cheating or unhappiness.

Overcoming all of this is difficult and it takes work from everyone. I know that it is just human nature to keep score when someone hurts you. But, you have to be practical. You have to decide if it is more important to keep score or if it is more important to you to have a sound, recovered, and healthy marriage which makes you happy.

Because if you want that, then there's just no way around putting in the work. It doesn't magically happen. And it's not going to happen if both people do not feel that they are getting what you need out of your marriage. Expressing what it is going to take to make your marriage fulfilling is a very good first step that you've already taken. Not every one is willing to do this.

So you have a good start. Now it is time for you both to show you're serious about making those efforts and those changes. Sometimes, both spouses are waiting for the other to act first. No one wants to be the one who is trying so hard while the other does nothing. This is understandable. No ones wants to feel like they are the only one who cares. The problem is that while you're both waiting, no progress is being made. Someone has to be the first to make the good faith effort. Someone has to decide that recovery is more important than waiting and watching.

Think about it for a second. What is it that you want the most? Most of us just want to be happy and to have peace and faith in our lives again. It's very difficult to have this if no one is trying. And it's silly when he's not trying because you're both keeping score. Sometimes you have to be the bigger person. Because I'd suspect that if you make an effort, you will see him making one too. It basically feeds on itself and forms a cycle. You give a little and then he does. You get a little and then he does. You're encouraged by his effort and so you put in more of your own effort and he reciprocates.

So while I think in theory that it's the cheating spouse who should take more initiative, I often know that this isn't always reality. It often takes effort on the part of both spouses and a willingness to stop keeping score. Sometimes, I was resentful of all of the counseling and soul searching after my husband's affair. But now I can look back and see that it was more than worth it. Because if we hadn't made that effort, we might still be very unhappy. And life is really too short to be unhappy. You can read more on my blog at

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My Husband Doesn't Seem Genuinely Interested In Hearing About My Feelings After His Infidelity

It is normal to want to talk at length after you find out your spouse has been cheating. You often have a lot of emotions that you need to release. And you want your spouse to understand what you are feeling. Although many spouse's seem willing to listen right after the affair is discovered, it's not uncommon to see their willingness to listen waning quickly.

A wife might explain: "when I first found out about my husband's affair, he stuck to me like glue. He seemed to be so scared that I was going to leave him. I knew that I wasn't going to leave, but I didn't share this with him. Because I thought that it wouldn't be a bad thing if he was worried. I wanted him to be scared so that he would think twice about cheating again. Early on, he told me that he wanted to know everything that I was thinking and feeling. He sat there patiently while I talked. He listened and seemed empathetic. But this quickly passed. Now when I want to talk, I look at his face and it's all scrunched up. He will sigh heavily. He sits and he does listen, but it's clear he'd rather be anywhere else. Last night, we were talking and I said: 'when this first happened, you told me that you wanted to hear my feelings. Is that not true anymore? Are you not interested in this anymore?' His response was that he was still interested, but it seems like I'm saying the same thing every time. Maybe I am, but it's a lot to take. Are men really interested in your feelings after their affair? Or are they just pretending to placate you?"

I think that they are interested. But what you are saying can be hurtful to them because they know that they are the cause of it. This is normal. In their hearts, they want to know what you're feeling and they want for you to share your thought process. But every time they hear your words, it just drives home the point that they have done tons of damage to their marriage and they have hurt someone that they love. This isn't always easy to hear.

And, your husband isn't alone in saying that your message is somewhat repetitive. I do hear from a lot of husbands who say the same thing - that they want to help their spouse heal after their cheating but that after a while, it can feel as if you are not making progress because you're hashing out the same old things every time.

Of course, you have every right to repeat yourself. This is a hard thing to deal with. No one can expect you to need to say or discuss something only once. We are not talking about something simple like him forgetting to do something he's promised that is mostly benign and innocent. We are talking about cheating. That is whole different level of a mistake.

However, in order to make real progress and to feel some relief, sometimes you have to be deliberate in how you are handling this. You don't want to say something so much that it loses its effectiveness. A counselor (or just you being very deliberate) can help you with this. It helps to try to have most of your difficult discussions in your counselor's office (or at a set time at home.) Because she can help to keep you on track. And she can get to the heart of what you are really wanting to communicate. Sometimes, we think we are saying what we mean, but we aren't being crystal clear.

If you are not in counseling, then one way to improve this is to try to have very specific, non negotiable times to talk about your feelings. If you just blurt out everything that comes into your head exactly when you experience it, your husband feels as if he's always on his guard and he can honestly start to tune you out. But if you limit these conversations to a set time (with it ending after a certain period of time,) he is more likely to give you his undivided attention and you are much more likely to feel that you are being heard.

Another thing that you can do is to try to be very specific so that it doesn't sound like you are saying the same thing over and over. Rather than repeating general phrases like "I feel hurt and betrayed," you want to really try to get to the heart of the matter. Try to really say what you mean. Examples are very specific phrases like: "I worry that I will not trust you. I worry that you are not attracted to me anymore. I worry that we can't get the intimacy back." This tells your husband much more about the obstacles that must be overcome and he is more likely to give you thoughtful responses and actions.

I hope I've addressed what you wanted to know. Men often are interested. But they will also sometimes try to protect themselves by zoning out or feeling defensive, even if this isn't their intention and they do not realize that they are doing it. It hurts them to realize what they've done. And it's normal to want to minimize that pain. So, you have to be deliberate so that your message is really heard and addressed.

I experienced this frustrating issue also. I think that, at times, my husband thought that our talks were just meant to punish him or to rehash things when I was trying to be genuine. It helped quite a bit to limit the talks to a set time. You can read more on my blog at

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